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Episode 508: No More Roe? & the New Scandal of the Evangelical Mind with Mark Noll


The leak of a draft ruling by the Supreme Court to overturn Roe v Wade has the entire country talking. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn discuss the overreactions from both the Left and Right, speculate about what a post-Roe America might look like, examine the complicated history of abortion including why many evangelicals originally supported Roe but then dramatically flipped on the issue, and share their hopes for what comes next.


Then, acclaimed historian Mark Noll talks about the 30th anniversary of his influential book, “The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind.” In the early 1990s, Noll celebrated the strength of the evangelical church, but he warned about a dangerous shortage of evangelical scholars. Today, he fears the opposite. While evangelical scholarship has never been stronger, Noll is deeply concerned about an anti-intellectual church taken with conspiracy theories and partisan politics.

News Segment 0:00 - Intro 2:31 - Supreme Court leak - initial reactions 8:49 - Changing views on abortion within evangelical Christianity 19:29 - Overreactions on both sides 33:48 - Upsides 42:55 - Downsides 47:32 - “The Southernization of the Pro-Life Movement” Resources mentioned: Advisory Opinions podcast - “Making Sense of the Supreme Court Leak” Part 1: https://advisoryopinions.thedispatch.com/p/making-sense-of-the-supreme-court?s=r Part 2: https://advisoryopinions.thedispatch.com/p/making-sense-of-the-supreme-court-8db?s=r “If Roe is Overturned, Where Should the Pro-Life Movement Go Next?” by Tish Harrison Warren - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/08/opinion/abortion-roe-dobbs-pro-life.html “Apocalypse Now: How the Left and Right Get Danger Wrong” by Michael Wear - https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/april-web-only/political-apocalypse-christianity-right-left-evangelicals.html “This Really Is a Different Pro-Life Movement” by Daniel K. Williams - https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/south-abortion-pro-life-protestants-catholics/629779/ Sponsor 57:22 - Faithful Counseling faithfulcounseling.com/holypost Interview with Mark Noll “The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind” - https://www.eerdmans.com/Products/8204/the-scandal-of-the-evangelical-mind.aspx 58:32 - Mark Noll intro 59:33 - Updated version - why now? 1:02:19 - Christian higher education “We the Fallen People” by Robert Tracy McKenzie - https://amzn.to/3M7oHGO 1:08:50 - Fundamentalism and fear 1:15:33 - Evolution and CRT 1:26:08 - Christian curiosity 1:30:19 - Credits

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49 Comments


What I wish you would discuss more is:

  1. The need for greater access to birth control - for people of all ages. I find it ironic that Hobby Lobby is pro-life and yet will not give their employees access to birth control as part of their medical benefits. People are having sex outside of marriage. You may not approve, but if you want fewer unplanned pregnancies, let's make sure access to birth control is easily available.

  2. The role of men. Where is the outcry about how men need to control themselves? How about promoting the development of birth control for men? How about holding men accountable for when a woman gets pregnant and gives birth? Right now, it appears that…

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Phil Vischer
Phil Vischer
May 20, 2022
Replying to

I was trying to think of a way that an unplanned pregnancy would disrupt a man's life as much as it disrupts a woman's life. Clearly unplanned pregnancies would decrease massively if guys knew one "wrong move" could derail all their plans. Haven't come up with anything yet. But the notion that a guy can just walk away and continue with his life is really unhelpful.

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Mary Snapp
Mary Snapp
May 18, 2022

I really wish the Holy Post would acknowledge that abortion laws hurt women who suffer miscarriages or have stillbirths. The "trigger" laws in many states include outlawing procedures that are commonly used during miscarriages. I'm sure Skye would say I'm being an alarmist on the left, but look at the laws and the consequences. They don't have exceptions carved out for in the case of a miscarriage or stillbirth. There are instances of women miscarrying, but the fetus has a heartbeat, so sorry, the doctor's can't do anything unless your life is in danger.


I found Skye's description of walking into an abortion clinic at 8.5 months to get an abortion flippant. First of all, at 8.5 months an abortio…


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John H
John H
May 15, 2022

Skye has regularly commented that under Roe our laws are more 'liberal' than Europe's. That's really not true. Yes, if you just look at number of weeks limits for abortion on demand it seems that way. For example, Skye has noted Finland and Norway limit it to 12 weeks, much earlier than the US under Roe. But that's only part of the story. In Norway, for example, abortion is available on-demand through 12 weeks but up to 18 weeks with an application (typically granted) and is still available past that for life of the mother or fetal abnormalities. Similar patterns hold for most EU nations. That would be much closer to the laws in our bluest states and certainly not…


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I listen weekly and generally agree with and enjoy the podcast. However, this topic eluded you. Phil's silliness, which is usually welcomed, and Kaitlyn's relentless sighs, especially when discussing the left's concerns, are not appropriate for this topic. Skye seemed to be the only person that was adequately ready for this topic and some of its nuance. The example of the headline from the left was tone deaf. The failure to understand that the Alito opinion indicates that the only rights we have those enumerated in the Constitution or those recognized at or near the time of the writing of the Constitution was the basis of the headline. One of you called it click bait. Some Christians, including me, …

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Hmmm. I am listening for the one thing that seems to escape these conversations - much like running around putting out spot fires, but never finding out why the fires are starting in the first place. Here is how a famous person said it in a rare interview in 1984 that has had me look at the entire thing differently ever since: Any thoughts on abortion? Abortion? I personally don’t think abortion is that important. I think it’s just an issue to evade whatever issues are makin’ people drink about abortion.


Well, I mean, when abortion’s used as a form of birth control… Well, I think birth control is another hoax that women shouldn’t have bought, but they did buy. I…


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