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Episode 488: How Trump Stole Christmas & Paul and Gender with Cynthia Long Westfall

Updated: Dec 23, 2021


Last Sunday, the former president attended an advent service at First Baptist Church in Dallas. Some have called what unfolded an example of evangelicalism’s syncretism with conservative politics. Why aren’t more people bothered by it? Then, Don Jr. said if Christians want to take back America they need to ignore Jesus’ commands like “Turn the other cheek.” Kaitlyn says he’s right. Skye responds to listener feedback to his interview about Gen Z, and Phil reads listener comments about abortion.

Then, Kaitlyn speaks with New Testament professor Dr. Cynthia Long Westfall about Paul and gender. Dr. Westfall says we need to apply the same interpretive framework to what the Bible says about men as we do for women. Based on the weight of biblical evidence, she argues that the burden of proof isn’t on those who say women should lead and teach, but on those who say they shouldn’t. Plus, why are do so many Christmas cards this year fear assault weapons? One historian says you can blame the YMCA.


PATREON BONUS: https://www.patreon.com/posts/60193055 (This bonus segment is available to the public - no Patreon membership required. Click through to listen or watch!)

News Segment 0:00 - Intro 2:43 - Mailbag: Gen Z 14:18 - Mailbag: Abortion 23:55 “How Trump Stole Christmas” https://time.com/6130228/donald-trump-christmas-evangelicals/ 33:29 - Donald Trump Jr. on turning the other cheek https://www.rawstory.com/turning-point-usa-and-donald-trump-jr/ 41:27 - Guns on Christmas cards https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/12/14/guns-christmas-thomas-massie-lauren-boebert/ 53:18 - Sponsor This episode is sponsored by FaithfulCounseling: faithfulcounseling.com/holypost

Interview with Cynthia Long Westfall “Discovering Biblical Equality: Biblical, Theological, Cultural, and Practical Perspectives” - https://amzn.to/3egJok0 54:41 - Interview Start 56:46 - About the book - purpose and new edition 56:07 - Cynthia Long Westfall background 1:07:05 - Galatians 3:28 and differences between genders 1:19:53 - Advice for women in ministry Other resources mentioned: “Paul and Gender: Reclaiming the Apostle’s Vision for Men and Women in Christ” - https://amzn.to/3phN7nN


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18 Comments


David Haile
David Haile
Dec 28, 2021

I love the podcast and listen to almost every episode. One thing about it is starting to get under my skin. It comes down to what Christian Taylor often says, "What then shall we do?" The Great Divide is really bothering me and I don't see how we'll ever recover or heal from it. At 62 years old, I'm at a loss. I grieve deeply that family and friends are so deeply intrenched in the other side and I'm sure they'd have the same thoughts about me if they'd shut up long enough to "ponder these things" (Luke 2:19).

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Replying to

And I'm feeling more depressed again. I have politically conservative friends who live in a primarily politically conservative area and I've just been accused by them of Cancel Culture for pointing out that cold weather in the Okanagan this year is evidence that climate change is a hoax is "egergiously false" from my point of view.


I'm thinking (humorously) of claiming asylum from a "continent of lunatics" in NZ.

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David Eckstrom
David Eckstrom
Dec 26, 2021

Recently discovered you guys and have been listening to lots of back episodes. I'm no longer an evangelical, but I find it interesting to watch what evangelical culture is going through right now. I disagree with you a bunch, but respect what you're doing and think you're sincere, which doesn't seem like the norm in evangelicalism right now.


Plus, Ukulele and butt news are welcome across the ideological spectrum.


Anyway, I recently listened to episode 307. Comments are closed for that, so I thought I'd add a thought here I found surprising when I first learned it that has some relevance. While discussing Colin Kapaernick you used an example of a native american kid being uncomfortable with representing the flag…

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DFH
DFH
Dec 26, 2021

The podcast is astute when calling out the evangelical embrace of Trump. I'd suggest the embrace of progressive policies couched in Christian virtue is just erring the other direction. Kaitlyn makes comments to this effect, this week about criminal justice, other times about immigration and the social safety net, implying that conservative policies (not talking about the rest of the Trump phenomena) betray the faith. I'd suggest this is a big error. As a Gen X with decent experience under my belt, I'd argue that empirically many progressive policies DO NOT WORK. For this week's comment, prosecutors' intentions may sound good in de-criminalizing low-level crimes, but experience suggests the consequences will be more violent and serious crime and suffering especi…


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DFH
DFH
Dec 26, 2021
Replying to

I agree with your post, jym5, with a caveat that you paint with a broad brush. The issue of who is and is not showing Christian virtue seems harder to me.


If we impugn the morality and purposes of most of those who embrace a set of right-wing policies doesn't that tend to excuse those on the other side who may be advocating/voting for things that, while purportedly moral, are in reality unjust and harmful? Whatever your intention, if you march with those who will defund the police, and the net result is hundreds of additional homicides in your state (many in poor neighborhoods you claimed to care about), have you behaved morally? And for many of the marchers a…


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Blue Rapter
Blue Rapter
Dec 24, 2021

As a Gen Z whose basically entire family is these kinds of people, I really appreciate this podcast episode. Not only does it help me understand what Skye was talking about last episode, but also helped me confirm my own family’s hardened hearts. I’m just glad to know I’m not the crazy one here. I will say, though, it does break my heart to know my parents/family are on a dark path. Merry Christmas, btw!

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Blue Rapter
Blue Rapter
Dec 27, 2021
Replying to

As an aspiring musician and writer, I actually really appreciate both the message and how you got it across :). Thank you, and God Bless You!

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Eric Liddell was born and died in China ... to Scottish parents, was a Scottish sprinter and rugby player -- as well as being a missionary. point to Phil.

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Phil Vischer
Phil Vischer
Dec 23, 2021
Replying to

Yes! Thank you! "Oh no, Phil... you're crazy for doing that accent..." Please.

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