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621: The Rise of Christian Extremism with Elizabeth Neumann

After working for the Department of Homeland Security, and more than twenty years as a counterterrorism expert, Elizabeth Neumann says the greatest threat to the U.S. is no longer international Islamic terrorism but domestic Christian extremists. She discusses her new book, “Kingdom of Rage,” with Skye and how conspiracy theories and violent political ideologies have infiltrated American evangelicalism. Also this week, the Southern Baptists debate which is the greater threat to the faith—the Nicene Creed or female pastors. And new data says drinking and smoking has plummeted among teenagers. Should we thank churches or smartphones?

Holy Post Plus:

0:00 - Intro

1:22 - Show Starts

4:15 - Theme Song

4:37 - Sponsor - Hiya Health - Go to to receive 50% off your first order

5:42 - World Relief - Visit to find out how to get two FREE e-learning courses and celebrate World Refugee Day with World Relief!

6:49 - Why Phil Was Expelled from Bible School (It’s Less Scandalous Than You Think!)

9:42 - The Annual SBC Meeting and Women Preaching, the Law Amendment

13:48 - Conservative SBC and Why Churches Split 

19:26 - Motivations Behind Doctrine Changes matter

31:38 - Drinking, Smoking, and Chewing Tobacco Uncommon Amongst Gen Z

37:18 - Drinking’s Down, Depression’s Up

42:07 - The Church Community Stands Out in an Age of Loneliness

47:13 - Sponsor -  Go to to sign up for Skye Jethani’s devotional, With God Daily

48:51 - Interview

54:04 - From Focusing on International Threats to Domestic Threats

58:13 - The Mainstreaming of Replacement Theory

1:04:54 - How Neumann Avoided Radicalization

1:09:40 - The Needs That Make People Susceptible to Radicalization

1:18:18 - The Scale That Makes Domestic Radicalization a Huge Threat

1:25:04 - End Credits

Links Mentioned in the News Segment:

The SBC’s Proposed Law Amendment

Does Going to Church Keep High Schoolers from Drinking and Smoking?

Other resources:

Kingdom of Rage: The Rise of Christian Extremism and the Path Back to Peace:

Holy Post website:

Holy Post Plus:

Holy Post Merch Store:

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.


Run 3
Run 3
Jul 04

I learned a lot from your blog. If you want to have more fun, you can learn more about old video games. It's going to be fun to play with you again! quordle


As a Southern Baptist, I have to say that coming from 3 non-Southern Baptists, you guys did a very good job at describing what the big issues were at the 2024 Southern Baptist Convention to other non-Southern Baptists. I actually laughed out loud several times at the humor of Skye Jethani & Phil Vischer on their take at some of the sheenanigans.


Sarah C
Sarah C
Jun 14

Dear Phil,

I was in that chapel service when you and Mike N. were awarded that alumni award. One of the few chapels I remember from my time at that Bible college!


The Holy Post Group had a great conversation concerning SBC’s upcoming vote for adoption of referring to women as “pastors.”

The “cherry picking” of verses vs. finding the “overall spirit of the passages” conversation was especially illuminating. They fell short, though, in recognizing that this debate on finding biblically based truth can be found not just in women’s roles, but in the acceptance of LGBTQ people.


I was thankful for the interview with Elizabeth Neumann (including the surprisingly simple and relevant definition of domestic terrorism), and yet I'm disheartened. I feel compelled to discuss such topics with people in my community, church and household, however I feel incapable of doing so in a loving way that doesn't come across as insulting. It doesn't help that the term "domestic terrorist" now has layers of culture-war baggage. When your loved ones who freely (albeit sometimes flippantly) admits "sometimes I want to identify as an assassin" or "I would be okay is someone steps up and ends (insert politician's name)" in a discussion of politics, what words would you use to lovingly call out the ungodly spirit in them)??

Replying to

Luke 6:27-28:

But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

Matthew 5:43-45:

You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven.

Romans 12:14, 17-19:

Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse . . . Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace…

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