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542: How to Repair American Evangelicalism with Walter Kim

The pandemic was miserable for mothers, right? New research disputes that claim and shows moms were actually happier than childless women. But not ALL moms. What makes the difference? A survey shows both conservative and progressive Americans believe the absolute worst about each other. Is there any hope for healing the divide? What makes human leg muscles different from other primate species? Phil gets to the bottom of it. And Skye interviews Walter Kim, the president of the National Association of Evangelicals, about what’s broken in the evangelical movement in America and how to repair it. Plus, drunk Santas crash a tank and hormonal Rwandan elephants.

News Segment

0:00 - Intro

1:30 - Kaitlyn’s trip

6:23 - Santas stuck in hedge

9:55 - News of the Butt

17:41 - “The Married-Mom Advantage”

35:14 - Partisan animosity


48:50 - Sponsor: Abide

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49:55 - Sponsor: Faithful Counseling

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Interview with Walter Kim

National Association of Evangelicals (NAE) -

51:05 - Walter Kim intro

52:57 - NAE’s biggest challenges

55:02 - Evangelical label

1:06:15 - Public discipleship

1:20:27 - Evangelicals and pluralism

1:27:30 - Priorities for NAE in 2023

Links and resources mentioned:

“Pub-crawling Santas get armoured vehicle stuck in Cornish hedge” (The Guardian) -

“Why Do We Have Butts?” (Gizmodo) -

“Activism and Apathy Are Poisoning American Politics” by David French (The Dispatch) -

Coming Apart: The State of White America, 1960-2010 by Charles Murray -

Why We’re Polarized by Ezra Klein -

Percent of Babies Born to Unmarried Mothers by State -

“Presbyterian Church in America Leaves National Association of Evangelicals” (Christianity Today) -

Holy Post website:

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Christine Roosa
Christine Roosa

By Far ... my favorite News of the Butt segment EVER! News of the Butt is a family favorite segment. My girls have been singing the ditty since it's inception when they were like 6 and 8.

I listened to this one when I was running a race, so it was motivating to go get my big butt in gear and make it bigger so I can run further and faster.


Judah Burke
Judah Burke

I'm not sure how popular/non-popular it is, but from my understanding, the far "progressive" side's view of child rearing is that Single Parenting vs Couple (Hetero- or otherwise) Parenting vs "Family Unit" Parenting vs "Village" parenting are not necessary better than one another.

Though most of the voices I've heard saying they are againt "normalization of the nuclear family" are generally multi-generational American and not people who have a heritage of extra-nuclear families such as thise in many Asian, African and the original North/South American cultures.


Not sure the conservative Evangelical view of marriage is good either. One of the biggest stressors for married women during the pandemic is that they consistently shouldered more of the burden of children being at home and household responsibilities (compared to married men) during the pandemic which was very stressful. Conservative Evangelicalism often reinforces the moral superiority of a married woman shouldering most of these responsibilities, ignoring the fact that the majority of women in America do work “outside the home” - (side note - I really dislike this phrase which tends to emphasize the Conservative Evangelical idea that women who are stay-at-home mothers do the important work of working inside the home while women who have careers leave their…



Kaitlyn’s comments on voting being linked to one's self identity certainly resonated. I meet people who seem to also equate supporting their tribe to doing a 'good work'. I know I am a good person because I support this morally righteous party. Then, we ascribe immoral motivations to the others, consistent with the survey results Phil described. I wonder if for Christians a blind Republican support might really be a works righteousness theological error? Maybe Skye could opine on that.

I sometimes hear the thoughtful Ezra Klein (who like Kaitlyn I also like to read) caricature Republican motives, and too quickly ascribe virtue to progressive policies. It is intellectually comfortable to assume your tribe has 'God on our side' a…


Carlos Miller
Carlos Miller

Just a minor correction on Kaitlyn’s comment about her Rwandan trip. The colonists didn’t pit ”races“ against one another but two different tribes or ethnicities. There is one race according to the Bible and we need to get away from the “race” word to distinguish ethnicity.

Also, I like the idea to split the podcast into two sections.

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