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538: Rotten Pastoral Restoration & the Power of Pain with Drew Dyck

Reactions to last week’s show were strong. The Holy Post crew responds to listener feedback about LGBTQ representation in movies and Al Mohler’s defense of conservatism. Former SBC president, Johnny Hunt, was removed from ministry for sexual assault, but last week four ministry colleagues decided it was time to “restore” him. When should disgraced pastors return to ministry, and have congregational and non-denominational churches proven to be incapable of holding toxic leaders accountable?

A new Twitter scandal offers more evidence that Christian Nationalism is a mask for racism and misogyny. Then, friend of the podcast Drew Dyck is back to recommend four books covering topics like the formative power of suffering, new medical research about addiction, the best way to read through the Bible, and a novel about Ireland in the 1980s. Plus, Drew’s war against fake Christmas trees.

Patreon Bonus: Christian Asks...Does God use calamities to discipline us? -

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News Segment

0:00 - Intro

3:36 - Last week debrief

21:22 - Rotten pastoral restoration

31:25 - Christian nationalism and kinism

47:43 - Sponsor: Faithful Counseling

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Interview with Drew Dyck

48:49 - Drew’s Views intro

49:48 - Christmas trees

52:53 - Book 1: “Beautiful People Don’t Just Happen”

58:05 - Book 2: “The Myth of Normal”

1:14:20 - Book 3: “Small Things Like These”

1:18:44 - Book 4: “52 Weeks in the Word”

Drew’s book recommendations:

“Beautiful People Don’t Just Happen: How God Redeems Regret, Hurt, and Fear in the Making of Better Humans” by Scott Sauls -

“The Myth of Normal: Trauma, Illness, and Healing in a Toxic Culture” by Gabor Maté -

“Small Things Like These” (a novel) by Claire Keegan -

“52 Weeks in the Word: A Companion for Reading Through the Bible in a Year” by Trillia J. Newbell -

Other links mentioned:

Holy Post website:

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

16 comentários

Terry DeGraff
Terry DeGraff
14 de dez. de 2022

I'm in marketing and one of my clients is an an alcoholic beverages distributor. The major products all provide new brand guideline updates every year, and this year they are all going all-in on inclusive lifestyle. Mostly images of same-sex kissing, flamboyant drag queens, etc. These are the images I'm provided to work with, but I'm getting massive resistance from the regional sales contacts. This echoes your Disney example, and it has very little to do with evangelicals. Brand creative is pushing content that the sales force won't use.

Respondendo a

As an old gay, I am baffled at this current interest in (and criticism of) drag queens. They're so...well, kind of old school. Maybe these youngsters (assuming age of your clients, obvs) think they discovered drag?


Skye, it was so refreshing for me to hear your story about your stress/heart palpitations. About a year ago I went through the same scenario. A couple thousand dollars later in tests and doctor bills I was told everything was fine and it was probably “just stress”. Honestly, I wasn’t sure I believed them until hearing your experience. I haven’t heard of anyone else having a similar experience until now and I loved the explanation your cardiologist gave. Thank you for sharing!


Andy Luiten
Andy Luiten
10 de dez. de 2022

Just got around to listening to your discussion on Gabor Mate. Skye I had the same experience when I was 23. I got all kinds of heart testing without any explanation for my chest pains. What I later found out was that because I thought “if I trust God then I don’t have anxiety” I was burying all those feelings and they were playing out in my body. Wish I had a doctor as good as yours at helping you see past the “I’m not stressed.”


Because you consistently discuss groups of people that have no representation on your show, maybe just be aware that "asking questions" can land much more differently when you are part of the group. Also be aware that "asking questions" is a trigger for many of us who have engaged repeatedly in bad faith online discourse with straight (white) men online and just "asking questions" is red flag.


Doug Felton
Doug Felton
08 de dez. de 2022

I'm surprised that you all didn't talk about the Matt Chandler situation. The consequences for his behavior seem to be a little over the top. According to reports, he had a non-sexual non-romantic interaction/conversation with another woman with the full knowledge of his wife and her husband. The only concern was that there was course joking. But apparently it was not sexually related. And for this he was out of the pulpit for 2 months, went through two intensive counseling sessions, and had to get a neurological scan. That just seems odd. Whereas Johnny Hunt's situation wasn't taken seriously enough, that seems to be a little over the top.

Sarah Lowe
Sarah Lowe
13 de dez. de 2022
Respondendo a

Honestly, as an evangelical woman (in the DFW area with many friends and family members who attend The Village Church), the Matt Chandler situation has me very concerned. I anticipate the repercussions being very bad for women in evangelical spaces, with churches scrambling to implement new policies to try to prevent any "appearance of evil" when it comes to male/female interactions. To me, it seems like while we were all still debating the so-called "Billy Graham rule," the ground seismically shifted under our feet and it's now potentially unacceptable for a Christian woman to interact with a man in ANY context, even in an online situation where the communication is open and objectively non-sexual/-romantic (and, if there are spouses involved,…

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