It's OK to Let Your Church Die

Ryan Burge’s church closed a year ago—and he’s still not over it. He’s here to talk about what’s happened in the year since, the responses he’s gotten from supporters and detractors, and why the thinks “not every church needs to be saved.” From the Bonus Interview of Holy Post 678 - listen to the full bonus segment only on holypost.com/plus!

Skye: You wrote a piece titled The Church I Led Closed a Year Ago. I'm Still Not Over It. You talked on our show before about your church, that you were a pastor of for 17 years in a relatively small town in Illinois that closed its doors last July, and you wrote this piece reflecting on what's happened in the last year.

Talk to us a little bit about the responses you got after you wrote your piece about your church closing and how you kind of categorize the different responses you got from people.

Ryan: Man, when I say that was the worst...like my church closed July 21st, and between then and when school started, that was the worst, like three or four week window of my adult life. I've been lucky enough to not have faced a lot of tragedy in my life. You know, my parents are still alive. My in-laws, you know, everyone's still alive in my family. So this was real grieving and my church closing was just one piece of it.

The response I got from people made it a hundred times worse because they were one of two categories. One I called the white savior complex, but they took that out 'cause it was a little bit too edgy, I suppose. But it was a bunch of white evangelical men saying, "Hey, I can come save your church. Just tell me where you are and I'll come get you."

Skye: And what did they mean by that? What were they gonna do?

Ryan: I don't know. I don't know. They're like, "we can revive churches. That's what our ministry does. We revive churches and we can revive your church. So tell us where it is and we'll come revive it."

Skye: Did you respond to any of those folks?

Ryan: No.

Skye: You say, "not every church needs to be saved. Sometimes they need to die."

Explain what you mean by that because I can hear some pastors in certain traditions reading that and essentially saying that's impossible. God never wants a church to die. How can you possibly say that?

Ryan: Because I think, you know, the, the author of Ecclesiastes says - my youth pastor voice is coming out now so get ready for this - "There's everything for a season." And for me, what I understood in my personal life was the pastoral season of my life was not my whole life. Like I was not called for all of eternity to be a pastor. I was called between the ages of thir 23 and 42 to be a pastor, and now I'm called to go forth and help shape the understanding of religion we have in American society. And that brought me to the end of where my church was at that church. The reason we died was not because of anything I did or did not do. We were already on that path far before I ever even knew of that church existence. So that was a chapter in my life. It was a chapter in the lives of those people that were there.

And at some point you need to understand the time and the money and the effort that goes into keeping that institution alive is not worth it in the grand scheme of the kingdom. Like, we're so much better served now by going to a larger church with more resources. We don't have to do everything anymore. And I think what's been the most weightlifting thing for me is when I went to church yesterday, I sat in the back corner by myself. I didn't have to read the liturgy. I didn't have to preach the sermon. I didn't have to stand up and do anything. I could go and then go home. And I am so spiritually refreshed by that, that I can't even describe because I was so spiritually rung out by being a pastor for 17 and a half years with no support staff.

There's this idea in economics called creative destruction: out of destroying things, good things come emerge. And I think this is a classic example of that, like the the Kingdom will have no end. That's my understanding of the Scriptures. And it doesn't say First Baptist in Mount Vernon, Illinois will have no end. It says the Kingdom will have no end, and we're part of this bigger organism. And maybe this little part of it is sloughed off, but it's still strong in other places. So let me go where it's strong now and have my faith renewed in that strength over there.

Skye: It's refreshing to hear that because I felt like for a long time, one of the errors that we live with is what I call the problem of perpetuity: this assumption that for something to really be in God's will, it has to go on in perpetuity. We never open ourselves to the possibility that maybe what God wanted done through this organization of resources is complete. And it's time to take the resources that remain and reallocate them to other places in new ways that the spirit is leading. And those resources can be people, it can be money, it can be a building, it could be program, whatever. But maybe it's time to put it all on the table and ask God, what do you want us to do with this? And maybe it's not just keep it going the way it's always been. And to to see leaders or hear of leaders that are open to that possibility, I find more faithful than the one who goes, "okay, God, here's what we have, and you are only allowed to continue to use it the way we want it to be used." That doesn't seem like a faithful approach to ministry.

Ryan: Have you ever been around someone who's been on a long cancer journey before, Skye?

Skye: Yes, I have.

Ryan: At the beginning they're like, "I'm gonna beat this thing." A lot of times they do beat it, but sometimes it comes back and they go, "we're gonna beat it this time" and they get the t-shirts and are so strong and all that stuff. And then they get it a third time and they look at you - this is the joy and misery of being a pastor - they'll look at you and go, "Ryan, I'm done." Like, "the fight is not worth it. I'm too tired. I give up." And I've had to look at more than one person and say "it's okay. God honors you. You know, you don't have to fight this battle forever. It's okay to give up."

And that's what my church did. We fought that battle for 30 years. And there are people in the church who fought it longer than I did. And I had to look at some of 'em and go, "it's okay." And I'm still trying to convince myself this is true, by the way, so I'm talking to myself right now, but it's okay to give up. You know, there's a greater purpose here beyond just your life or this church's life. And that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, and it doesn't hurt the people who are left over by the church closing. And that person dying? They're hurt by that, 'cause that person's giving up. But at the end of the day, you've gotta make that decision for yourself.

And I think it's okay, you know, once you fought the fight and given it everything you have, it's okay to say, "I'm done, come what may."

That's such a beautiful saying. Like, this is where I stand, come what may. For us it was my church closing down and becoming national news and my life being put on display and everyone telling me why I'm wrong in a heretic and an apostate. But come what may, I'm still here. You know, I'm still a faithful Christian as best I can. I'm still writing my Substack.

Those people in my church, by the way, many of them are still worshiping together at the Methodist church in town. Actually, half my congregation was at the Methodist church yesterday. So we're not gone. We're not done. We're still around. Just in a different way.

Skye: To back up to some of the language you were using, maybe a better word than "give up" is "surrender."

Ryan: Yeah.

Skye: It's not that you're giving up, because giving up sounds like you're just walking away. Whereas surrender is more of a sense of, okay, the way I was fighting before, I'm done fighting that way, but now I'm into this posture of trust. I'm gonna surrender and trust that the way I was trying to pursue this isn't working. I'm now gonna trust God and yeah, it's gonna be painful at times, but I'm gonna trust that he's the one who brings new life out of death.

Ryan: And he does! He's in the resurrection business for goodness sakes, right? And listen, here's what I've learned from this. If your church closes, don't tell anybody. Just, close your doors. And maybe don't write about it in national publications.