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Episode 515: America After Roe & Pursuing Shalom with Amy Sherman


Phil and Kaitlyn are finally back from (separate) trips to Europe, but they’re returning to a very different America. The Supreme Court has officially overturned Roe and ended the Constitutional right to abortion. What’s good about the decision? What’s concerning? And why is it increasingly unacceptable to have a nuanced understanding of this issue? Then, a new article by Ronald Brownstein says America’s relative unity in the 20th century was an anomaly, and the country may be heading toward a permanent split. Can the union be saved?

Skye then talked to Amy Sherman, the author of our Holy Post Book Club selection, “Agents of Flourishing: Pursuing Shalom in Every Corner of Society.” Sherman says we need a larger, more biblical vision of God’s redemption, and we must recapture what it means for Christ’s people to be a “royal priesthood” in parts of the culture often overlooked by the church. Plus, Phil’s European report includes wild horses, naked Dutch men, and a frustrating lack of Diet Coke.


Patreon Bonus: Getting Schooled by Kaitlyn Schiess, Faith & Capitalism 101 - https://www.patreon.com/posts/68383122


News Segment

0:00 - Intro

1:28 - Kaitlyn’s travelogue

6:54 - Phil’s travelogue

20:03 - America after Roe

44:28 - America growing apart


Interview with Amy Sherman

“Agents of Flourishing” - https://amzn.to/3HZZdtp

57:07 - Amy Sherman intro

59:02 - Jeremiah 29:7

1:05:27 - Royal priesthood

1:10:08 - Community endowments

1:13:24 - Understanding flourishing

1:24:09 - Ethics and Christian influence


Other resources referenced in the episode:


“Roe Is Reversed, and the Right Isn’t Ready” by David French (The Dispatch) - https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/roe-is-reversed-and-the-right-isnt

“America is Growing Apart, Possibly for Good” by Ronal Brownstein (The Atlantic) - https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2022/06/red-and-blue-state-divide-is-growing-michael-podhorzer-newsletter/661377/

“No Future Without Forgiveness” by Desmond Tutu - https://amzn.to/3nof6R3


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42 Comments


Great podcast as always. I have to disagree with Skye's comment about Congress being able to find some compromise on abortion. I don't think thats feasible. The problem is everyone is arguing about the wrong question. To someone that is pro-life, we obtain our 'personhood' in both the legal and moral sense at the moment of conception. If that is true, an abortion is no different than murdering a 3 year old or a 13 year old. That's a hard thing to compromise on. To the other side, the fetus is nothing more than a tumor and having the government involved makes all the 'control over my body' and privacy arguements valid. Again, its hard to compromise on that.


What…


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Jen Manlief
Jen Manlief
Jul 07, 2022

It's very interesting to me that Skye made an argument for "compromise" in order to stay a unified nation, while citing examples of compromises that were made around slavery in order to unify initially, and reunify after the civil war. then later noting that compromising on slavery was absolutely wrong.


from the very beginning, our "compromise" is almost always sacrificing the value, personhood and rights of people who are already marginalized. they become our bargaining chips to get the power and control we want. I wish Christ followers would stop making "compromises" that impact majority culture not at all, and where the weight is fully borne by "others".


Honestly, I'm not sure america is worth keeping together when we continue…


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Martin Brown
Martin Brown
Jul 05, 2022

I'm sorry but did Phil REALLY say that he put his mother and grandmother onto a train and then onto a plane knowing that they had Covid?

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Hey Holy Post. I've been listening for at least a year not to every podcast but here and there......maybe 20 total. I find them interesting especially the church /guest part, a little long.....sometimes with interesting stuff but many times too silly stuff. I agree with many things but disagree with many. You highlight negatively the "right" lots in your discussions....don't hear you do the same with the "left" as much and when you do talk about politics you always talk about Trump, by name, in a negative way but I never have heard you EVER talk about Biden, by name, in a negative way. Whether it's character, policy, or whatever. Seems a little one-sided and seems to me …

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Phil Vischer
Phil Vischer
Jul 05, 2022
Replying to

Well said, Joe. To put it simply, since episode one the purpose of the show has been to discuss the health and future of American Evangelicalism. Trump has been a frequent topic since it became clear he was having a huge impact on American Evangelicalism, unlike, perhaps, any presidential candidate before or since. Whether or not Biden's policies are good or bad for America, they don't have a whole lot of impact on American Evangelicalism. The strange, symbiotic relationship between Trump and white Evangelicals is perhaps the most extraordinary story in recent memory, and continues to reverberate through American politics and, to a lesser extent, around the world. Personally, I'd love to never talk about Donald Trump ever again. But …

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Joe Harrison
Joe Harrison
Jul 02, 2022

Skye talking about someone getting on his case on Twitter in regards to interacting with "the world" and how it's "pointless" to do that unless you're confronting people about their sin really resonated with me. I have had so many Christians in my life tell me that they only way for me to have relationships, even friendships, with people like those in the LGBTQ+ community is if I am frequently reminding them that I "don't support their lifestyle," and if I'm not frequently doing that then I'm effectively "supporting" their "sin" and therefore I am "enabling their sin." We also see this with Christians who insist that we as Christians must not use peoples' preferred pronouns because we are, again,…

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Joe Harrison
Joe Harrison
Jul 04, 2022
Replying to

I am going through the process of entering the Orthodox Church, and one of the things that I have been told pretty frequently by priests that I have talked with is: the priority is to bring someone to Christ by loving them. Then, once they meet Christ it's really between Him and them what they choose to do about their "lifestyle." And that's so contrary to a lot of what we see among evangelicalism where the emphasis really seems to be "you need to clean yourself up FIRST and THEN meet Christ." When that's entirely backwards.

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