672: Gender Worship Wars & the Joy of Being Cultural Outsiders with Patrick Miller
- Phil Vischer
- Jun 4
- 2 min read
Updated: Jun 5
In the past, debates over worship styles were often marked by generational differences; however, a new article suggests that this is changing. For Gen Z, worship preferences may be dividing along gender lines instead. For younger Christians, is CCM from Venus and liturgy from Mars? Drew Dyck joins Skye and Kaitlyn to discuss the evidence, the implications, and the solution for the worship gender divide. Then, Kaitlyn interviews Patrick Miller about his new book with co-author Keith Simon, “Joyful Outsiders.” He says there are six different ways we can respond to the loss of Christian cultural power, but all of them should be marked with joy rather than fear or anger. Also this week—listeners react to our criticism of “asking Jesus into your heart,” and pigeons on a plane.
Holy Post Plus:
Bonus Segment:
Ad-Free Version of this Episode:
0:00 - Show Starts
2:55 - Theme Song
3:18 - Sponsor - BetterHelp - This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://www.betterhelp.com/HOLYPOST and get 10% off your first month
4:25 - Sponsor - Blueland - Get up to 25% off your first order by going to https://www.Blueland.com/HOLYPOST
5:36 - Animal News
13:07 - Jesus in Your Heart Response
25:27 - The Gen Z Worship War
36:23 - Low Church to High Church
51:50 - Sponsor - AG1 - Heavily researched, thoroughly purity-tested, and filled with stuff you need. Go to https://www.drinkag1.com/HOLYPOST
53:06 - Sponsor - World Relief: The Path - Get your FREE prayer guide: Prayers for Such a Time as This. If you want to go beyond prayer, you can also learn more about joining The Path as a monthly partner with World Relief! https://www.worldrelief.org/holypost
54:15 - Interview
55:55- What Does it Mean to Be Joyful Outsiders?
1:00:20 - Are Christians Always Outsiders?
1:14:20 - Prophets and Hope
1:20:08 - Approaching Joyful Living
1:31:00 - End Credits
Links from News Segment:
Pigeons on a Plane!
Gen Z Gender Worship War:
Other Resources:
Joyful Outsiders: Six Ways to Live Like Jesus in a Disorienting Culture: https://a.co/d/9ouoDCT
Read the Introduction to Skye’s new book and sign up to Holy Post Plus to follow along as the book is written: holypost.com/book
Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/
Holy Post Plus: www.holypost.com/plus
Holy Post Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/holypost
Holy Post Merch Store: https://www.holypost.com/shop
The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
I'm a Gen X Christian who's lived in Eastern Europe for the past 10 years (and my husband was born here) and we've been talking a lot the past several weeks about watching Protestant missionaries come and go and their churches not taking root. So the convo about high church vs ccm was really interesting and relevant to what we are seeing. One thing I think needs to be talked about it cultural influences. Seeing the world through the honor/shame culture of Eastern Europe vs guilt/innocence culture of the West makes protestant style churches very uncomfortable and off-putting. Honor/shame cultures are more drawn to God, the Father (patronage, community, holiness) where protestantism appears more drawn to Jesus (individuality, transactional, "Jesus…
So ... I'm two decades older than the oldest voice on this pod, but probably no older as a Christian, since I was baptized at 26. I was really puzzled by the idea that having two styles of service in one church might inappropriately separate or segment "our community." I lived through the split of contemporary and traditional services in two different churches. One was an Episcopal congregation totaling about 150; the other a Methodist church of about 900. Both churches retained a solid sense of community, partly because coffee hour was between the two services and everyone was invited to all the potlucks and religious ed programs and service projects. I think the idea that "our community" is defined…
I love Holy Post Media, have been listening for years, and just joined HPM+. And I’m so grateful for the views expressed and held, and for the countless writers I have found through the Holy Post. But I am commenting for the first time as I was shocked by Kaitlyn’s comments and behavior in this episode. The comments about women were judgemental, insulting, old stereotypes, and extreme generalizing in my opinion. It was cringing to hear her talk about women’s (in general!) loose spirituality, apparently we all read horoscopes (what?!), and do yoga. While I realize if you look in a yoga class, you will almost always see more women than men, the only Christians I know that do y…