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610: Learning to Disagree Respectfully with John Inazu

Updated: Mar 29


Find the full video of the podcast on our Patreon (free for everyone) here.


Since the Supreme Court overturned

Roe v Wade almost two years ago, the debate about abortion has taken on new dimensions. Factions within the pro-life camp are now battling each other. Could they break apart the Religious Right? Then, Kaitlyn interviews professor of Law and Religion, John Inazu, about his new book, “Learning to Disagree.” He says our differences don’t have to become divisions, which is a timely message in an election year. Plus, is Indonesia hiding a secret island of Hobbits? And a new documentary asks if Jesus was a vegetarian?


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0:00 - World Relief - Visit https://worldrelief.org/holypost/ to download your family refugee guide and learn more about the Path Community


0:55 - Intro


2:29 - Show Starts


5:20 - Theme Song


5:42 - Sponsor - Fabric by Gerber Life - Join the thousands of parents who trust Fabric to protect their family. Apply today in just minutes at www.meetfabric.com/HOLYPOST


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7:53 - Christspiracy—Was Jesus Vegan?


15:45 - Homo Floresiensis Skeleton Found in Indonesia


25:02 - Does Personhood Start at Conception?


41:23 - Why “Life Begins at Conception” is a Misleading Phrase


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1:03:00 - Interview


1:15:40 - Is it Our Job to Change Someone’s Mind?


1:22:42 - Why Ignoring Our Differences Doesn’t Help


1:31:34 - Dropping Our Self-Protective Impulse


1:35:19 - End Credits



Links Mentioned in the News Segment:



“Hobbits” in Flores, Indonesia?


Other resources:

Learning to Disagree: The Surprising Path to Navigating Differences with Empanth and Respect by John Inazu: https://a.co/d/6ei1Sqk


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14 Comments


dnorz
dnorz
7 days ago

I commend you for a thought provoking and engaging conversation on abortion and when life begins. Recently I read The Consistent Life Ethic by Charles Camosy. It in he talks repeatedly about creating a "culture of hospitality" not only towards life, but towards sex, our neighbors, the poor and the vulnerable, etc. This culture of hospitality towards sex (genuine encounter, mutuality, and hospitality) rejects the popular culture's predilection towards seeing sex through a consumeristic lens (autonomy, privacy, detachment, conquest, and using others’ bodies valued above all else) which leads to a throwaway culture. This got me thinking about how my wife and I relate to sex. She has a IUD which makes if convenient for us, but perhaps as Christians…

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I really loved the discussion around the ethics of the beginning of life/ personhood in this episode. However, when Sky mentioned that one of the first parts of a human to develop was the anus, Phil let me down for perhaps the first time since before Veggie Tales told the story of David and Bathsheba using a bath toy (a genius work) by NOT responding with “and this has been the news of the butt!” Big miss, Phil. Big.

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Yes evangelicals would say abortion is the most important issue to vote on. Now with Roe being overturned, that sentiment is being questioned as "politically" people realize it will cost Republicans votes. As Skye mentioned Trump and Republicans think abortion is now a losing issue, so they now say let the States handle the issue.


When IVF was in the news I could not believe how many Republicans came out and said they totally support IVF, even though there is upwards of 70% embryo waste during the procedures.

Or many will now say a 15 week abortion ban is okay, but a 15 week ban allows 95% of all abortions.


So are we saying evangelicals are Machiavellian in trying to…


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When Kaitlyn was talking about "just because it might not be a person in the womb doesn't mean it's not worth protecting," she got close to but then swerved away from something I've been thinking about - even if the fetus isn't a full person, it is developing into a full person. It's not going to develop into anything other to a person (assuming no miscarriage). This means that even if an abortion doesn't end a human life, it prevents a "proto-person" from becoming a person, which still seems quite a severe moral crime.

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dnorz
dnorz
7 days ago
Replying to

This reminds me of a bit from comedian Bill Burr on abortion. Just a warning that there is some strong language in the clip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj3cE-i27jc

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I appreciated the discussion of abortion, and Phil correctly identified the real issue as not so much when "life" begins - plants have "life" - but when "personhood" does, which is much more perplexing. In my view the very ambiguity of that question should make us cautious about criminalizing approaches to abortion, but also justifies a lot of moral unease around its occurrence. A couple of things I think could be added to the conversation: as I understand it, the thing about the Hebrew in Ex 21:22-25 is that the text DOESN'T specify who the "harm" is to when a man strikes a pregnant woman. If you assume it means to the woman, then the law doesn't protect the l…

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