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483: Faith, Science, and the Covid Vaccines with Francis Collins

Are faith and science irreconcilable belief systems? Not according to Dr. Francis Collins, the Director of the National Institutes of Health and founder of BioLogos. He talks with Phil about his journey from atheism to faith, his role in overseeing the country’s response to Covid-19, and why America’s culture war is literally killing people. Collins also explains why the Covid vaccines are safe and should be embraced by Christians as an answer to prayer.

Then, The Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood’s attack on a small Texas church backfires, leading to a conversation about God and gendered language. The editor of World Magazine leaves in protest as yet another evangelical institution takes a sharp turn to the right. Are we witnessing the final fury of a dying religious right? Plus, Phil was unknowingly on the Late Show with Stephen Colbert. And, a meaningless archeological discovery in Michigan.

News Segment:

November livestream details [3:41]

Archaeological discovery in Michigan [5:21]

Phil on the Late Show [12:24]

Beth Allison Barr and our language for God [14:04]

“The Making of Biblical Womanhood” -

Marvin Olasky and the struggle between evangelicals and fundamentalists [28:52]

Interview with Francis Collins:

Interview Start [49:28]

“Language of God” book [52:20]

Response to objections after NIH nomination [55:19]

Science and faith conflicts [57:20]

COVID-19 responses and vaccines [1:00:05]

Legacy as a visible scientist of faith [1:07:23]

Culture wars and the pandemic [1:15:21]

Other resources mentioned:

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Replying to on it!!!


I listened to this interview with Dr. Collins. He seemed like a nice man and of course I am happy to hear he has turned from atheism to a believer of God. Not sure though if a “man of faith” though means a follower of Jesus Christ and his teachings. Even Satan believes in God and quotes scripture. I know this is not a political/medical show but so many questions could have been asked about the Covid response. He mentioned that he was sad that all of it became political……I believe that clearly politicians and then the dishonest mainstream media were at fault from the beginning. From left leaning politicians balking at Trump’s vaccines to Dr. Fauci flip flopping…


Dr. Collins is brilliant, I have no doubt. He’s also highly hypocritical and aloof when he speaks about the misinformation and public distrust surrounding the vaccines and the efficacy of masking. It was the government (read NIH) who first insisted that wearing mask was not only unnecessary, but also ineffective in preventing the spread of this virus. (I assume this was to protect the supply of masks for frontline workers?) Then, inexplicably, the government did a complete about-face and began to mandate the wearing of masks in public places. For Dr. Collins to fail to acknowledge the government‘s complicity in creating the public distrust is infuriating, especially as he continuously speaks about the importance of truth. He also fails…


Krystle Moilliet
Krystle Moilliet
Nov 30, 2021

The realization that God is genderless- and equally both Male and Female was a bombshell to me about 14 years ago.

I could never understand how God created both men AND women in his image if he was always male and sometimes without any “real“ gender. I finally started to except who I am and that God made me with a perfect design in mind. I realized that everything feminine in me was a good thing because it came from God and all the parts of me that are typically attributed to the “masculine” personality didn’t make me weird or at odds with myself because it also came from God. God didn’t make a mistake when he created me.


As you reached the end of the news segment, the piece of the conversation about how these the old conservatives are likely fading away and the need for something new resonated with some thoughts I have had. There are certainly a lot of reasons to focus on issues like that, but another piece that I have been wondering about is examples and stories of Christians interacting with the world well. The interview segments in the interview point to this, but I would love to hear you all provide regular stories that show positive examples of church communities demonstrating what means to live out as faithful followers of Christ.

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