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Episode 512: Christian Self-Defense & Church-Based Deconstruction with Mike Erre & Lina AbuJamra


Christians who oppose more restrictive gun control policies say we have a God-given constitutional right to self-defense. But is there any evidence to back this claim? With Christian and Kaitlyn both in Europe, Phil and Skye invite Mike Erre from the Voxology podcast to fill the empty co-host chair. Mike looks at the biblical texts cited by gun advocates and says that even if self-defense can be justified, for the Christian it is not a “right.”


Then, Skye talks to Lina AbuJamra about her book, “Fractured Faith: Finding Your Way Back to Faith in an Age of Deconstruction.” Like so many, AbuJamra entered a season of significant doubt not because of anti-Christian messages from the culture, but after experiencing a toxic leadership culture at her church. She shares what restored her faith, the danger of false expectations, and why honesty about our disillusionment is the first step. Also this week—California declares that bees are fish, and scientists accidentally create murder hamsters. What could possibly go wrong?


Holy Post 10th Anniversary Merch: https://www.holypost.com/shop


News Segment:

0:00 - Intro

4:18 - Bees are fish

9:11 - Murder hamsters

14:55 - Re: French Friday episode on gun control

19:39 - Constitutional right to self-defense?

27:05 - Biblical right to self-defense?

46:53 - Thoughts and prayers

Sponsor

51:28 - Faithful Counseling

faithfulcounseling.com/holypost

Interview with Lina AbuJamra:

“Fractured Faith: Finding Your Way Back to God in an Age of Deconstruction” - https://amzn.to/3xqCiEa

Living with Power - https://www.livingwithpower.org


52:38 - Lina AbuJamra intro

54:44 - Journey that led to deconstruction

1:02:20 - False expectations

1:08:10 - American evangelical leadership crisis

1:15:23 - Honesty in disillusionment

1:24:56 - Credits

Other resources mentioned:

Voxology podcast - https://voxologypodcast.com


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43件のコメント


Tyler Black
Tyler Black
2022年6月10日

Exodus 22:2-3 states that if a thief at night breaks in and is struck the fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; but if it happens after sunrise, the defender is guilty of bloodshed. That sounds to me like God was not against defense of property. If the possibility of preventing violence is possible then restraint should be utilized.

いいね!
Phil Vischer
Phil Vischer
2022年6月14日
返信先

Oh - sure, you're right. Those waters get too deep for this puppeteer!

いいね!

Thank you for the discussion with Lina. The comments on the "subtle prosperity gospel" rang true. We like to hear sermons about the upside of biblical stories, but rarely the other side. We love to hear about God redeeming the Israelites from Egypt with the 10 plagues, but what about the 400 years between Joseph and Moses? How many generations of Israel lived and died as slaves before God redeemed the nation?

How often have we heard preaching on the end of Hebrews 11? We love the heroes of the faith who saw/did great things and saw great redemptions during life. But what about those in verses 36-39 who never saw the physical redemption?

And most importantly the critical point…

いいね!

Jessica Rodgers
Jessica Rodgers
2022年6月10日

This was incredibly thoughtful and hugely convicting. A lot to consider.

I would pushback on the on the characterization of thoughts and prayers vs policy on guns and abortion. I think its worthwhile to have a policy discussion about guns, but it’s not a good faith argument to compare the two. The purpose of obtaining an abortion is to kill a human being. The purpose of owning a gun is not, necessarily, to kill someone. It seems you’re suggesting that it is hypocritical for Christians to advocate for policy responses to a procedure designed to kill others while not advocating for policy responses to owning a weapon. I don’t think that’s fully engaging with either argument.


いいね!
Jessica Rodgers
Jessica Rodgers
2022年6月14日
返信先

I may not have been clear on my initial statement. I don’t disagree that we need gun regs or that they would be helpful in saving lives. My pushback is the comparison to abortion. I think it’s a bad faith argument to compare policy responses to something that may result in lives lost vs something that is only successful when someone is killed.

I am also tired of “thoughts and prayers” but I don’t think the direct comparison of guns and abortion is accurate or helpful.

The airplane example is far more accurate to guns, imo. Regulating against potential, if not intended, use.

いいね!

I live in the Welsh Valleys, in the UK. Contrary to popular belief, it's not that there are no guns here. I hear the sound of shotguns ringing out across my valley most Sunday mornings; it's farmers shooting rabbits. Of those professions most at risk of suicide in the UK, farmers often top the list, because they have demanding and sometimes lonely jobs ... and a ready means of suicide should they wish it, as many of them own guns where other citizens do not. Skye's arguments over the last couple of podcasts that access to guns means a more lethal method of suicide should a person choose it definitely rings true to me. In general, the American attachment to guns…

いいね!

(I edited my questions slightly for clarity.)

I have questions:

(1) On the one hand it sounds like you are saying that Christians do not have a right to defend themselves, and on the other hand it sounds like you are saying it can be permissible in certain situations. Could you please clarify? Is this a definitional issue over what a "right" is?

(2) When you talked about Christians not having a right to self-defense, are you only talking about lethal self-defense? What about lethal self-defense from animals? And what about the various means of non-lethal self-defense?

いいね!
Jazz Koehn
Jazz Koehn
2022年6月10日
返信先

Glad to help. Those distinctions can get so complicated and the language isn’t always as clear as the situations demand.

いいね!
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