A new survey of worship leaders finds that four megachurches have cornered the worship music market. Should we care who is writing the songs we sing in church, and what gets lost when market forces influence local ministries? A sermon clip has gone viral showing a megachurch pastor scolding people who arrive late or leave early because they are treating the “church like it’s a religious show instead of a welcoming family.” But are people acting like church is a show because that’s the model church leaders have created? We explore the history of how churches came to copy theaters and its impact on the church’s mission and power. Then, Phil talks to Karen Swallow Prior about her new book, “The Evangelical Imagination: How Stories, Images, and Metaphors Created a Culture in Crisis.” She explains how the current crisis in evangelicalism finds its roots in trying to preserve Victorian values rather than biblical ones. Also this week: a celebrity bear is above the law.
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0:00 - Intro
1:49 - Show Starts
4:10 - Theme Song
4:27 - Sponsor - Hiya Health
5:36 - Animal News
14:05 - How we choose worship music in church
34:55 - JD Greear’s recent viral clip
56:03 - Sponsor - AG1
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57:32 - Sponsor - Blueland
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58:38 - Interview Intro
Karen Swallow Prior
1:03:36 - How Victorian literature influenced Evangelicalism
1:12:20 - Evangelicialism and Empire
1:24:43 - Broadening our imagination
1:36:43 - End Credits
Links mentioned in news segment:
Hank the Tank: Fugitive burglar bear captured in California
Few worship leaders avoid Hillsong, Bethel songs — despite controversies and scandal
JD Greear’s sermon clip - https://twitter.com/laurchas22/status/1687426921586622464
Other resources:
The Evangelical Imagination: How Stories, Images, and Metaphors Created a Culture in Crisis by Karen Swallow Prior
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As the wife of a lead pastor in a small congregation and highly involved in leadership myself, I appreciate the dialog on what we have created church to be. As you stated, the challenges of being the shepherd or co-learner are both real. Especially in smaller churches where you are directly involved with many in the church. I would love for you all to have interviewees on your podcast that address some of the solutions to creating a relational environment. Many great issues are discussed on your program (which is why I keep listening), but I'm often left wondering how. Thanks for the great programming you put out there.
One topic that fails to come up in discussions about worship in the Church is people with social anxiety, neurodivergence, or introverts. Or in some cases, all three. I have a pretty good case of at least 2 of these, and the meet and greet before and after the service is somewhat stressful for me. I start to worry that no one will say hello, then I worry that they WILL say hello. I worry if I will have to shake hands or worse, hug if I don't want to. So yes, sometimes I come in late and sit at the back so I won't have to interact too much. Formal small groups can be too much for me as…
You should definitely check out Wendell Kimbrough’s music. He was our church’s artist in residence/worship leader for several years and one of his weekly responsibilities was creating a singable refrain for the responsive Psalm reading. These refrain’s often became entire songs and eventually an album. Lament is beautifully engaged and expressed in his adept lyrical/translating hand. He’s now at a church in Dallas and writing amazing music that any church would be blessed to have. https://worshipleader.com/worship/you-belong-how-wendell-kimbroughs-song-brought-psalm-87-to-life-in-my-seminary-class/
https://www.wendellk.com
Mike made a comment in the discussion about worship music "The concern I have ... not very incarnational.. as if we all decided to do the same sermon series together...". There are thousands of churches who follow a liturgical calendar and do hear the same sermon or similar versions preached every Sunday. I am more concerned with those who feel we always have to come up with something new and original. This is where we can go off track tying to find a new take.
I think one of the reasons Hillsong and Bethel music is popular is because they are good at what they do. I'm sure there are other forces such as marketing involved but I do think the songs themselves (many of them) are actually high quality both musically and lyrically. There are many Hillsong and Bethel songs that I still really like.
However I've grown very uncomfortable with Bethel due to political affiliations, and the revelations that have recently come out about Hillsong have exposed a culture that is way worse than I ever expected. So I'm really not comfortable with either now. It's a different situation than comparing it to problematic figures that are long dead because the problems are…