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Episode 442: Christian Nationalism & the Good Life with Derwin Gray


Evangelicals used to believe the way to transform America was through revivalism. Increasingly, they now believe it’s through revolution. Why are so many buying into Christian nationalism? What is it? And what can we do about those caught in this heretical gospel of political domination?

Phil, Skye, and Christian discuss the issue.


Also this week, Dr. Derwin Gray—former NFL player and lead pastor of a multiethnic church in North Carolina—joins Skye to talk about his new book on the Beatitudes, “The Good Life,” and why Jesus was the happiest person ever. Gray also unpacks why so many pastors are afraid to talk about race and politics. Plus—nano chameleons and scientists teach vegetables to send emails.



18 Comments


Wesley Lantz
Wesley Lantz
Mar 04, 2021

Working through a backlog of episodes, and honestly, this one gave me all kinds of feelings. Hearing Derwin talk about his church makes me long for a church like that, holistically looking at all aspects of Scripture, from atonement and salvation to justice and equity, and being willing to dive into the hard stuff. I come from a solidly conservative background, and the hard cultural stuff never gets brought up. No words about the Capitol riot or even the BLM protests and riots. And I'm frustrated, but I also feel stagnated. I think it's interesting that you guys brought up that it takes load-bearing relationships to be able to have those conversations, when I actually feel like I'm too close…


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I've been listening for quite a while, and I truly appreciate your ministry. I've never been a flaming conservative or liberal: I'm more of a simmering moderate. There have been times I did not feel at home in any part of the Kingdom. But listening to the wide variety of thinkers on your podcast has reminded me of the depth and width of God's Kingdom, and that I am free to be me and feel at home just the way I am, smack-dab in the middle.


I've been reading the works of E. Stanley Jones, and his book, The Christ of the American Road, written in 1944, has been especially interesting in light of the recent issues facing Evangelicalism and…


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Great episode. I love Derwin's fearlessness here. Looking forward to sharing this with some friends/family.


The comments about immigration made me think you guys should tackle the history of American immigration sometime. All too often when discussing illegal immigrants with republicans I find their go-to line is "well, they should just come in legally" which theoretically sounds great but is meaningless. Most birth citizens no not have even CLOSE to a clue about how difficult and expensive immigration and the path to citizenship is, and how low one's chances are of winning that lottery even to start the process. Much less have ever heard about the various changes made to immigration law through the decades that increasingly (and deliberately) stacked…

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sallie vroom
sallie vroom
Feb 07, 2021

Phil and team, I appreciate your podcast and videos because you are not afraid to ask the evangelical church to confront the sin within, including racism and Christian nationalism. As it relates to the latter, I would enjoy hearing you interview Pastor Brian Zahnd and theologian Stephen Backhouse who have much to offer on this topic.

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Kristi Funni
Kristi Funni
Feb 07, 2021

Well, as I said I am not SBC, so I can't speak for them. Speaking for myself, as an Evangelical, if you come here legally- the more the merrier. But, there have been times that despite being very clear on that point I have been personally accused of being anti-immigrant simply because I typically vote republican. Probably in the same way that democrat voters are accused of not being pro-life. Neither is fair since neither political party can possibly represent every issue l hold. Christians vote on both sides. Thank you for your response. I appreciate the conversation.

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