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579: How the Bible is Used & Abused in Politics with Kaitlyn Schiess

An unknown country singer with a fake name has skyrocketed to the top of the charts with the song “Rich Men North of Richmond,” and the film “The Sound of Freedom” has become one of the top-grossing movies of the year. These sleeper hits were both fueled by the MAGA media and conservative audiences. What do they say about the movement and the divisions in American culture? Then, Skye talks to Kaitlyn about the launch of her new book, “The Ballot and the Bible,” and the way political movements have used and abused scripture throughout American history. She also explains how George W. Bush and Barack Obama used the Bible very differently during their presidencies, and the surprising reason Obama cited scripture far more often. Also this week—backyard billionaire wrestling, China hires full-time adult children, and a three-year-old with the worst superpower ever.

Holy Post Plus:

Bonus interview with Kaitlyn Schiess

Christian Asks - How do we know we're really maturing in Christ?

0:00 - Intro

2:30 - Show Starts

3:57 - Theme Song

4:19 - Sponsor - Faithful Counseling

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6:35 - Listener Emails

11:08 - Zuckerberg vs Musk

16:17 - Full time children in China

30:31 - Rich Men North of Richmond

44:07 - Sound of Freedom

56:23 - Sponsor - Center for Pastor Theologians

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57:35 - Sponsor - AG1

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59:08 - Interview Intro

Kaitlyn Schiess

1:02:13 - How the Bible was used during the American Revolution

1:09:29 - Romans 13

1:26:25 - How Bush and Obama used Scripture during their presidencies

1:37:11 - End Credits

Links mentioned in news segment:

Mark Zuckerberg says ‘it’s time to move on’ from Elon Musk cage fight

Young Chinese are getting paid to be ‘full-time children’ as jobs become harder to find

Oliver Anthony’s Viral Hit Doesn’t Love Its Neighbors

Other resources:

The Ballot and the Bible by Kaitlyn Schiess

The Bible and Politics Explainer Video

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When I first discovered the Holy Post a few years ago, I devoured every back episode and loved it! More recently, though, I’ve tired of what often seems like “drive by” commentary on the news stories that Phil chooses to feature. This is in stark contrast to your work on the interviews, where the interviewer usually reads the author’s book (if it’s a book interview) and engages in very thoughtful and insightful dialog.

It is now far too common for Phil and Skye and Christian/Kaitlyn to respond on the fly to a story, and those reactions are often shaped by the author of the story being read. This results in jumping to conclusions that are often wrong. You guys …


Hey Phil and crew,

My daughter introduced me to the Holy Post. We just got a chance to binge a few episodes coming home from visiting another daughter at college. Our family got a chance to meet you at Asbury University a few years back and we have enjoyed your work for the last two decades.

We discussed this episode as a family, and my daughter asked me to write this response.

While the song you refer to does have some disagreeable theology, it is obvious to my family and I that you have not seen the movie. The Sound of Freedom is intentionally emotionally charged, true, but in no way creates a "good guy, bad guy" dichotomy. In fact,…


Mervin Bitikofer
Mervin Bitikofer
Sep 03, 2023

Thanks to learning of great reading resources in this forum, I've been reading Kaitlyn's book "The Ballot and the Bible" and learning so much from it - thanks, Kaitlyn! I'm only up to the civil rights chapter, and so I haven't finished hearing all that you have to say. But I'm wondering if in all your research you ever encountered the Korean pastor, Erna Kim Hackett? Her message dovetails right along with yours so well, though perhaps only on the side of showing what she sees as clear misappropriation of the Bible. (I do appreciate your inclusion of both side's perspectives on each of the major issues - though without trying to create any false equivalence.) But Hackett's referen…


Jason Schoonover
Jason Schoonover
Aug 30, 2023

The conversation around the film Sound of Freedom is really helpful. In researching around I was surprised to see that Angel Studios is not an evangelical company, it is Mormon! I wonder how many people who are sending money to this Studio realized they are supporting a Mormon owned ministry. Just curious!


Laura Gatannah
Laura Gatannah
Aug 23, 2023

I think that maybe Phil was referring to teacup pigs? But just so you know, pigs will grow to whatever size they will grow. There is no pig that will stay tiny forever. That's how they get ya.

I am glad that Kaitlyn brought up historical familial relationships. When we have traveled to other countries, locals we speak to are horrified that we boot our children out of the house. One tour guide expressed that she could not imagine not having her son at home. He was engaged and his wife was getting ready to move in with them. The whole family was part of their tour guide operation.

There may be the odd young adult who just wants to…

Dana Carrigan
Dana Carrigan
Aug 28, 2023
Replying to

Yes!!! I was yelling at my phone, teacup pigs! My daughter is obsessed with pigs. However, as Laura stated, teacup pigs are not a real thing.

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